HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 2001.12.05 - 39087OAKLAND COUNTY PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING
PUBLIC HEARING
December 5, 2001
Chairman Pecky Lewis called the public hearing to order at 9:08 a.m. in the banquet room of the Waterford
Oaks Activity Center.
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT:
Chairman Pecky D. Lewis, Jr., Vice Chairman Richard Skarritt, Secretary Richard D. Kuhn, Jr., Fred
Korzon, Thomas Law, Ruel E. McPherson, Shelley Taub, J. David VanderVeen, Richard V. Vogt
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT:
John McCulloch
ALSO PRESENT:
Parks and Recreation
Oakland County Corporation Counsel
Oakland County Purchasing
Oakland County Drain Commission
Oakland Co. Sheriffs Dept. -Parks Division
McKenna & Associates
Ludwig & Associates
Ferndale Recreation Advisory Committee
Private Citizens
Ralph Richard, Executive Officer
Daniel Stencil, Administrator — Park Operations
Frank Trionfi, Administrator - Administration
Jon J. Kipke, Assistant Administrator
Mike Thibodeau, Chief of Golf
Joseph Figa, Chief of Design and Development
Janet Pung, Public Communications Officer
Sue Wells, Chief of Recreation
Sheila Cox, Accountant IV
Zayn Gregory, Architectural Engineer I
Sandy Dorey, Recreation Supervisor
Phil Castonia, Intern
Keith Lerminiaux, Deputy Corporation Counsel
John Ross, Assistant Corporation Counsel
Mike Kreza, Buyer
Joseph Colaianne, Attorney
Michael Searing, Sergeant
Terry Croad, Director of Design
Jim Ludwig, President
Carol Beeman, Member
Margaret Thompson
Mary Bailey
Deb Frohlich
Susan Fredl
The purpose of the public hearing was to receive comments on the Orion Oaks Master Plan revisions.
Public Communications Officer Janet Pung provided a brief history and background of the park, plus the
county -wide survey conducted to assist with future planning for the entire park system.
Chief of Design and Development Joseph Figa reviewed the planning process used in the development of
the revised master plan for the park.
Terry Croad from McKenna & Associates and Jim Ludwig from Ludwig & Associates reviewed the aspects
of the proposed revisions, including the reintroduction of native wildlife, consolidation of current entrances
to one access point, shorter access road that will then lead to the bark park, comfort station, two picnic
shelters, minor activity area on the north area of the meadow, and trail system. Phase II will include a
4-1
(Commission Meeting, December 5, 2001)
meandering road along the edge of the meadow with access to the west side of the lake, boat access, dock
fishing pier, and gazebo; Joslyn Road fishing access will then be abandoned. Other elements of the plan
include encouraging a wildlife habitat corridor buffer and screening on the west and south, setting aside the
38 acres on the west side of Baldwin as a preserve, and a proposed day use outdoor education center area
in the northwest corner near the Moose Preserve Nature Center.
Public Comments:
Margaret Thompson spoke opposing the development of the interior of the park and expressed concerns
about the noise.
Deb Frolich requested the Commission listen to the majority opinion requesting no development or road of
any type in the interior of the park.
Susan Fredl expressed her appreciation for the Commission's efforts in trying to keep the park development
limited and her concerns about a road through the park.
The Parks Commission received numerous letters, faxes, and e-mails, which will be placed on record with
these minutes.
The public hearing was adjourned at 9:38 a.m.
c�-�,��i BPS
Richard Kuhn, Jr., Secretary Karen S. Kohn CPS, Recording Secretary
4-2
Oakland County Parks and Recreation Commission 11-12-01
I am writing with regard to the proposed new "master plan" for Orion Oaks
County park, I have lived in the local area for over eleven years, Living in an
area with access to some "green space" in amongst an area with such fast paced
development, has been an absolute joy. While living in Clarkston, I was able to
access more than a few of the Oaks parks which I utilized on a daily basis and
enjoyed for hiking, biking, fishing, bow hunting, golf, canoeing, x-country
skiing, winter hiking, sledding, snow shoeing etc., etc. I have also been
responsible for writing numerous letters to the management running
Independence Oaks trying to point out ways to make the park more enjoyable for
"everyone" without spending a lot of money. I have been very fortunate in getting
some responses and some actual long standing rules and regulations amended
to reflect the current use of the park. Because of the enormous development in
and around the area from Auburn Hills north, I feel compelled to once again drop
those of you who really care, another note of concern — this time about Orion
Oaks,
Orion Oaks is a very special place for many reasons, It is unlike many of the
local parks because Orion Oaks is able to provide the surrounding areas with
many, many activities that 1 have mentioned above — many of which you cannot
I
do all in one park like you can at Orion Oaks, There is no other park that has '
been left basically in its rural state which can provide so many activities all in one
place. I have watched millions of dollars being spent over at Independence Oaks
for so called improvements such as paving all the roads — something I still can't i
understand. Projects like this has cost tax payers literally thousarids and
thousands of dollars and yet I hear the reasons for wanting to develop Orion
Oaks is because the park does not generate enough revenue, If this is the issue,
then why In the world do I see money being wasted day after day a few miles
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away at Independence Oaks? The wasted resources and manpower is
unbelievable and is noticeable almost every time I go to Independence Oaks.
I have seen three person crews spending days and days cutting finger size tree
branches on trees that are not even near a trail, I have seen crews driving down
trials blowing leaves off trails in the middle of fall when there's thousands of
leaves still on trees. Why do you need to blow leaves off the hiking trails in the
first place? They are trails not roads, they are trails! Every winter I see the
same workers plowing practically nvisible layers of snow when there's less than
an eighth of an inch of snow on the road itself — sparks shooting off the blade of
the snowplow as it speeds around because there's not even enough snow to
really plow in the first place. I see gravel being dumped on trails where there is
no erosion and no need to have gravel in the first place. All this does is make the
trails look like roads and very uncomfortable to walk on. Just a few weeks ago, I
saw new gravel being put down off the Lakeshore trail on the trail intersection
that goes up to the filature Center --- Why ? my dog doesn't even like to walk on
the gravel. It's even hard to hike on. Am I missing something or is there
something wrong with dirt hiking trails and rural parks? I can appreciate
development for "good reasons" where necessary but, Independence Oaks has
way to much time and money it seems because every time I go there, I see work
being done that is not really needed and being done by twice the staff necessary
to do the job in the first place. Why not take all these people who seem to be i
driving around almlessly using four people to do a one person job, and build I
some new trails instead of putting up one more friggin sign. Why not pick up the
damn trash that is constantly blowing out of the uncovered garbage cans. I have
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photos documenting some of the work I see being done all the time over at
Independence Oaks which is completely unnecessary. There is one long time
employee that has been given the name of "The Mad Tree Cutter" because he's
constantly trimming bushes as if it were pebble Beach. I mean this guy spends
hundreds of hours cutting twigs the size of a pencil — I have the photos I!
If Orion not generating revenue is an Issue, stop spending and wasting so much
money at Independence Oaks and other parks!!
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Save the money and use it to acquire new park land which is disappearing at
more than an alarming rate in Oakland County,
I can see making a new bike path at Independence Oaks but, to spend
thousands and thousands of dollars to pave the access roads — why? Was the
fact that the old dirt roads caused a lot of dust -- can this really be the reason?
And does Independence Oaks really have that kind of money to spend to keep
dust down?
I have been told the chemical that was used to keep the dust down was causing
some environmental concerns. That's fine, don't use anything at all. Why spend
such an enormous amount of money and resources to pave the roads. Do paved
roads really bring in more revenue? I would venture to guess that the increased
revenue directly due to paved roads is minimal at best.
Now you have much of the runoff at the headwaters of the Clinton River coming
off pavement, Anyone environmentally educated has heard of all the problems
with paved areas around shopping malls and housing developments having a
negative affect on the surrounding land and lakes due to water run-off. There are
issues from the elimination of natural filtering of rain water run-off to changing the
actual temperature of the runoff water that comes off of paved surfaces, which
in turn affects everything the water passes over or through. How many lakes
around new sub -divisions have to die of "salt death" due to run off from housing
developments? Bottom line is how much development is really necessary and
how many people does It really take to get many of these development projects
accomplished? Why are we spending time and money putting gravel in areas
around the Lakeshore trail at Independence Oaks? It's plaih not even good to
walk on anymore. It's slippery when wet and compacts to an almost cement hard
substance, There's enough sidewalks in the area, you don't need one around
the Lakeshore (ill
Orion Oaks probably cost a very minimal amount of actual money to maintain
and is enjoyed by everyone I talk to just the way it is. Why is there this NEED to
develop every park? If you need more revenue, go over to Independence Oaks
where the bank seems to have a never closed policy.
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Why do we have to ruin a perfectly wonderful place by making proposals such as
putting roads right down the middle of the park through the nicest meadows in
the entire park. There is access to the park from three sides already. There Is
access to Lake Sixteen from Joslyn Road. There are boat launches and fishing
docks etc already in place. I can't understand why "anything" has to change,
The people making these decisions obviously do not utilize the park the way
others seem to enjoy it every single day, The one time proposal of making it into
a golf course was ludicrous. The great minds that thought of doing that, should
have been shot. Are there hot enough golf courses in the area already? I enjoy
golf but, at the ten billion existing golf courses that are already developed.
Where else can you bow hunt and take your kid sledding on the same day?
Where else can you walk your dog and cross country ski? independence Oaks
has been developed to a point where it Is not enjoyable anymore. Trails being
made into roads, signs for signs at every corner, 1 have never in my entire life
seen so many signs in one park providing so little if any information, Some of the
signs are as big as ones found on highways. Why do there need to be five and
six signs at one trial intersection saying do this, don't do this — you'd think people
are hiking and skiing at 75 mph 11! 1 can clearly see a hill in front of me while
walking, running or x-country skiing. I don't need a highway sign telling me
"Danger steep hill ahead" Come on, I think you can assume the daily park user
can make some decisions on his or her own without having to be reminded by
some giant yellow sign. Cars now speed through the park thanks to the newly
paved roads, Now we have a speed radar machine inside the park gate telling
you the speed you're traveling. Shouldn't the local law enforcement agencies be
using that device out on Sashabaw Road where the normal rate of speed is 65-
75 mph most of the time? The entire feel Independence Oaks used to have has
changed yet I do not see the increased revenue all this development has
supposedly generated.
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If you want to do anything at all at Orion to generate revenue, why not have an
entrance fee — one that is enforced at the three entrance gates like at Indy.
How much could it cost to pay a teenager to man a small entrance gate?
Putting a paved or dirt road through Orion would be an absolute crime and would
ruin the natural state that makes Orion so beautiful and different, If you want to
make Orion more attractive to the day to day user, put in a few permanent clean
rest rooms, a couple open structures and picnic sites near each entrance. Put in
more trials to hike on which cost very little to maintain. Setter still, LAVE
ORION THE WAY IT IS IIII I have never ever heard one single person who
utilizes the park, ever complain about anything other than one or two wishing
there were real rest rooms instead of port -a johns.
I would really like to know what the real reasons are for developing the park are.
If It's the money, then stop wasting It at other nearby parks.
It seems to me that a whole lot of money can be saved by doing very little to the
way the park currently is. It's almost as if someone wants to spend money
making roads etc which will only cost even more to maintain and will also require
the park to generate the revenue it already does not have. Put some more
covered trash cans nt specific spots along the way. More places to stop and sit
to enjoy the views, enforce the dog waste pickup law and provide monetary
fines for those who abuse this simple park rule. There are ways to get more
money out of Orion WITHOUT developing it. Who's making all the noise,
demanding more development take place with in the park boundaries anyway ?
no one I know, and I am In the park three and four times a week and every
weekend I I have yet to talk to anyone who wants Orion Oaks to be changed in
any manner. What is to be gained by having paved roads in and around Lake
Sixteen. I can easily point out what will be lost and lost forever II Orion Oaks is
like a small oasis in the middle of enormous urban sprawl. Shouldn't every
community be allowed to have such an oasis with out having a friggin golf course
attached to it? Shouldn't every kid be able to "walk" into a park with his sled
behind him not worrying about "car traffic" ? I am sorry but, I just do not
understand how so many educated adults can dream up development schemes
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such as this. Do they have nothing better to do? Go out and start acquiring hew
land for new parks before there is no land untouched by sub -divisions and office
parks available for any parks - developed or not. PLEASE see that there is no
real reason to change the park at all, We all like it the way it is, I now drive thirty
minutes each way just to get to Orion Oaks — why?, because there are no parks
where I currently live they all have been developed into baseball fields,
shopping centers and the kind of parks that have very limited use but have high
maintenance related costs. Thos a of us who really use the park on a regular
basis, don't want any change, We are proud of the fact that there is a rural,
undeveloped park we can enjoy and know that our kids will be able to enjoy for
years to come. We take pride in having a "one of a kind" park nearby.
PLEAS11 do not ruln the park I have enjoyed for so many years fro so many long
walks, so many runs with my dog, so much of the things we all need in life
outside of our day to day responsibilities at work every day,
This is a one of a kind place and it is your responsibility to keep it that way.,.,.no
one wants to see another Independence Oaks. We have enough of those kinds
of parks right around the corner. If people want a more developed park
experience, have some small signs pointing them five minutes away to
Independence Oaks..... there's enough signs, roads, gravel and pavement for
everyone. I know I for one will do everything in my_power to keep the little green
space we have in between all the housing projects GREEN.
I appreciate your time and consideration to my letter of extreme concern,
Thank you very much for taking time to entertain my thoughts and opinions for
they are shred by the majority of those who use the park on a regular basis,
S
Tro P, Rogers
2715 Columbia
Berkley, MI
48072
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November 5, 2001
Oakland County Parks and Recreation Commission
2800 Watkins Lake Rd.
Waterford, MI 48328
RE: Orion Oaks Master Plan
Dear Commissioners:
I have had a chance to study the proposed Master Plan for Orion Oaks County Park. I
was sorry to see that it does not reflect the comments of the majority of residents who
attended the public hearings on this matter and asked that development in the park be
limited to the outer perimeter.
I am particularly concerned about the proposed paving in large areas of the park. I feel
this would damage many of the delicate natural areas which have finally begun to recover
from so many years of farming and abuse by off -road vehicles. Pavement would alter the
nature of the park, especially the meadow, as a preserve for both wildlife and people.
I am also very concerned about limiting entry to the park to Clarkston Rd. Most people,
including my family, use the various entrances of the park for different purposes. Many
evenings we have stopped at the fishing site for a view of the sunset over Lake Sixteen or
a quick walk along the lake. Fishermen with only an hour to spend can pull up at the
Joslyn Rd. entrance and fish from the dock. Access on the west side of the lake would
destroy the beautiful "up north" look of the lake from Joslyn Road. Baldwin Road is the
starting point for skiers, hikers, bikers, and hunters. Many people do not have the time, or
sometimes the energy, to cross the park from the proposed parking lots in the meadow to
access the more remote, hilly areas along Baldwin Road.
The Bark Park has been a very popular facility and does need to be expanded. We have
heard reports from veterinarians and animal caregivers of dogs attacking other dogs and
illnesses being spread due to the large number of animals in such a small space and the
lack of control by some owners. However, the proposed expansion does not begin to
solve that problem. The use of the flat, open northeast corner of the park, designated on
the plan as "future use" would be a more adequate amount of property for dogs to run,
especially those who prefer to not to run in packs. Please consider increasing the size of
the Bark Park and improving the entrance and increasing the parking near the current
maintenance trailer rather than requiring Bark Park users to enter on Clarkston Road and
travel through the park.
Orion Oaks Master Plan
Comments
Al'ovember 5, 2001
I understand there is a need for family facilities, and I feel that the current Clarkston
Road entrance, with the relocation or removal of the tree trimming services, would be a
good area for a "family pavilion" including restroom facilities and picnic areas. This
would be a great starting point for families to walk, bike, or ski the meadow. It could also
be an educational tie-in to the Lake Orion Schools Moose Tree Preserve, as you have
proposed.
Please consider my comments before adopting the Master Plan. Please don't pave one of
the last pieces of paradise in Orion Township.
Thank you for your consideration,
Mary Jane 1hields
3429 Elmy Dr.
Orion, MI 43349
(243 ) 391-0913
November 8, 2001
2370 Canoe Circle Drive
Lake Orion, MI 48360
Oalcland County Parks and Recreation Commission
2800 Watkins Lake Road
Waterford, MI 48328
Dear Commission Members,
I have taken the opportunity to look at the Conceptual Master Plan for Orion Oaks
County Park dated 9/12/01. I am not in agreement with the plan as presented. My
preference is that Orion Oaks be dedicated to conserving open space.
At a time when development of open space is rampant, why should Oakland County
Parks add to it? It is important to consider opportunities to conserve large areas of open
space while they still exist.
Proponents say that development would occupy only a portion of the park, with the
remainder left undisturbed. That sounds a lot like developer talk. Size is a large part of
what makes for quality open space. The shapes depicting the development areas don't
tell the whole story of what will happen during and after development. Most of the areas
identified as "Nature Preserve" are wetlands, which can't be developed anyway.
I have heard others discount the value of the land resource at Orion Oaks because it is not
pristine. It depends on which area of the park they are referencing. Quality open space
doesn't necessarily have to be pristine. The odds of finding a pristine area of this size
that is available and suitable for use by the public are low. This is the best chance there is
in Oakland County to conserve a large area of undeveloped open space that will be open
to the public.
Open space recreational opportunities for southeast Oakland County, including Pontiac,
are hard to find. Where are residents from this part of the county to go to enjoy open
space? As it is, Orion Oaks provides the best option. If it is developed, that option will
be taken away.
To my knowledge, there has been no overwhelming cry from the residents in other parts
of Oakland County to develop the park. It is being assumed that is what they want. The
majority of the feedback is from Orion Township residents. They are the primary users
of the park and are mostly opposed to development. Oakland County Parks continues to
resist those citizens who use and care about the park the most.
Everyone understands this is an Oakland County Park, meant for use by all residents of
Oakland County. I have not heard of an Orion Township resident that would not
welcome users from other parts of the county.
Orion Oaks is fulfilling its purpose of providing a recreational opportunity to all county
residents who prefer to recreate in undeveloped open space. The facilities presented in
the proposed plan are repetitive of what is offered in other county parks. Not every park
needs to offer the same conveniences.
I suggest that all development on the west side of Lake Sixteen be deleted. Put the
Frisbee golf, a few parking spaces and 2 portable toilets in the northeast corner of the
park with access off Joslyn Road. Picnic Area #1 should be reduced in size and stay as
close to Clarkston Road as possible to avoid any influence on the meadow area.
My hope is that the members of the Oakland County Parks and Recreation Commission
will think hard about the legacy that we will leave for future generations and you will
have the foresight to recognize what this parcel of land will mean to Oakland County
residents in 25, 50 or 75 years from now. Another developed park won't mean very
much. Open space will be rare.
Sincerely,
Gerald Lee
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From: Todd Scott [AIIYearGear@home.com]
ent: Friday, November 09, 2001 8:58 PM
o: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Master Plan suggestion
November 9, 2001
Oakland County Parks and Recreation Commission
2800 Watkins Lake Road
Waterford, Michigan 48328
Dear Commission Members:
The Michigan Mountain Biking Association (MMBA) suggests an addition to the
Orion Oaks Master Plan.
We would like to propose new singletrack mountain bike (multi -use,
non -motorized) trails on the western half of the property that would
complement the existing trail network.
While we do not have any specific trail proposals at this time, we would
'ke to leave the door open for the future.
As with other trails we have developed, including those at Addison Oaks, we
would design the trails to minimally impact the park's natural resources.
Sincerely:
Todd Scott
President
Michigan Mountain Biking Association
Mary Zednik
From: Todd Scott [AIIYearGear@home.com]
;ent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 1:05 PM
i o: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks comments
The below letter is in response to public comments
offered by Helen Korhonen in the November 9th, 2001
edition of the Oakland Press, which may have been
submitted to the County as well:
Dear Ms. Korhonen:
We share your concerns (Oakland Press, 11 /9/01) regarding the development of
Orion Oaks as well as the potential for increased noise.
However, we are confused with your comments regarding mountain bike noise.
Mountain bikes are non -motorized and make no more noise than hiking - that's
part of their allure.
As far as we know, these traits will not be opened to motorized traffic.
Sincerely:
Todd Scott
President
Michigan Mountain Biking Association
Cc: Oakland County Parks and Recreation
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Mary Zednik
From: Bell, Thomas (Brakel-abs) [Thomas.BelI@ArvinMeritor.com]
dent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 12:42 PM
o: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us'
Subject: Orion Oaks proposal..
The proposed 7.7 million dollar upgrade to Orion Oaks County Park needs to
be seriously re-evaluated. It is disturbing to me to that asphalt
will find its way into another county park. Orion Oaks is fortunate to have
almost 1000 acres of relatively undisturbed forests, meadows and wetlands.
The increased traffic, boating and picnic areas will certainty have a
negative effect on what most visitors now find enjoying. I have great
concerns
about the future of the park. 200 to 300 parking spaces?? Frisbee golf???
Picnic shelters and restrooms??? A 100 plus acre undisturbed take
with increased boating traffic??? Litter?? Noise?? What about the
wildlife? How about the folks who enjoy the park for what has been
destroyed at most
of the other Oakland County Parks? Solitude!! A quite place to take your
children to hike and enjoy the great outdoors. We need to preserve this
park
for future generations. Think about this proposal long and hard.
Thomas C Bell
Lake Orion
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Mamamia0624@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 6:43 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Master Plan revision
Dear Daniel J. Stencil, Administrator -Operations
Please accept this as my public comment. Leave Orion Oaks Park as is. It's a beautiful
place - year round. Our family frequently uses the park for biking, walking, running, and
cross-country skiing. The Bark Park is a heaven for dogs and many people, as well. We
DON'T want or need anymore traffic or parking lots in this area.
Let's not mess up the Real Master Plan that God handed us for free. It's called 'nature'.
Develop elsewhere.
Sincerely,
Leann Marriott, Lake Orion
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Gmarriott2688@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 5:52 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Master Plan
Each Oakland County park has it's own "personality". Orion Oaks has that of a true greenspace with no intrusion of any type of motor
vehicle except for park maintenance. What you are proposing would destroy that.
I have reviewed the Orion Oaks Master plan and have rode through the park on my bike numerous times since reviewing the plan to get
a feel for what you are recommending. I see no need to allow motor vehicles into the park along with the addition of 3 picnic areas and
over 350 parking spaces. I submit to you that 98% of the time, those parking spaces would remain empty. There are many picnic areas
within 1 to 15 minutes of Orion Oaks, including the Township park, Friendship park, Bald Mountain State park, Independence Oaks and
Addison Oaks. This should satisfy more than enough of North Oakland County's picnic needs.
I like the proposed boardwalk around Lake 16 but think that "Frisbee Golf" is a total boondoggle. I have been to Addison Oaks numerous
times and the course over there is seldom used.
In closing, I submit to you the following. Last April, those who really use and care about Orion Oaks told you how they felt. The vast
majority said keep development to a minimum. The proposed plan takes development too far. You have stated that the park is for all
Oakland County residents. Where were the pro development people? They certainly were not at the meeting I attended. I have never
seen any data supporting the development you are proposing.
Some of the plan has merit, but allowing cars into the park is a bad idea. That being said, at least McKenna didn't include a golf course
as part of the master plan.
Thanks for listening,
Gary Marriott
2688 Dansbury Court
Lake Orion, MI 48360
248-391-1571
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Fishfax@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 8:33 AM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Master Plan
October 29, 2001
To: Daniel J. Stencil
Administrator - Operations
Mr. Stencil,
As a resident Oakland County and Orion Township, I have some issues concerning the the Orion Oaks
Master Plan. As a frequent user of Orion Oaks Park, I see no need for any futhur development of this property at
the current time. The property should be left in its current and natural pristine manner. Any funds appropriated
for this project should be diverted to enhance the parks that currently exist. Some of the items outlined in the
Orion Oaks Master Plan don't even exist in the current park system. The Commission should abandon the
current plan for Orion Oaks and develope plans to upgrade the current park system with the intended funding.
Thank you,
Nicholas J. Coccia
Mary Zednik
From: DHChipman@detr.atf.treas.gov
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 9:16 AM
i o: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Cc: chipman@ameritech.net; whimsea@mac.com
Subject: Public Comment Re. Orion Oaks County Park
To Whom It May Concern:
As a regular guest of the Orion Oaks Park and a resident of a subdivision
located near the corner of Baldwin and Waldon Roads in Orion Township I
appreciate being afforded the opportunity to make comments regarding your
plans to upgrade the Orion Oaks County Park.
Since moving to Orion Township in February of 1999 1 have regularly enjoyed
running on the trails within the park, entering on the Baldwin Road
entrance, circling a five mile route within the park and returning the two
mites south on Baldwin by foot towards my residence. During my runs I have
noticed an equal number of residents taking a similar route by foot or bike
from the numerous subdivisions south of the park where the majority of the
homeowners tiving within walking/running distance from the park reside.
I have been told that due to security concerns, the new plan intends to
limit entrance to the park by way of the Clarkston Road entrance in an
effort to manage traffic into the park and lessen the possibility for
vandalism. It was stated that to date, vandalism has not been a major
-)roblem at the park so that this is considered a preventative measure. I
,lope that you would consider a pedestrian/bike entrance to be maintained on
Baldwin Road that could be secured at nightfall and monitored via camera
during the day. This would serve to balance the need for security with the
desire that residents have easy access to the park by foot/bike a short
distance from their homes. I would imagine that most vandalism occurs when
individuals enter the park at nightfall anyway and in the future those
intent on destruction of property would merely violate the exterior fencing
if so inclined and would not be deterred by the closing of the Baldwin
entrance.
Lastly, if financial cuts are to be made to the plan in the future I would
suggest starting with the Frisbee Golf area. Many parks over the past ten
years have installed such areas and I personally have rarely viewed them
utilized. Additionally, I would consider making the park a no hunting zone.
It has been disconcerting to be passed by several bow hunters during my runs
the last several weeks. This is a park where people should feel safe and
not subject to an accidental shooting.
Thank you in advance for considering my opinions which are probably shared
by many but certainly not all. No matter what is decided for the greater
good of the community this is a far superior plan than creating another golf
course. Orion Oaks is a gem and why I enjoy residing in Orion Township.
Sincerely,
David H. Chipman
3818 Mount Rainier Drive
Lake Orion, MI 48360
3y i - 9g,q
Mary Zednik
From: Hudson, Ellen [EHudson@PALACENET.COM]
gent: Friday, November 09, 2001 4:47 PM
o: 'OCPARKS@CO.OAKLAND.MI.US'
November 9, 2001
As a resident of Lake Orion and a frequent user of the Orion Oaks Bark Park
and the surronding park, I am disappointed that the request of the vast
majority of the people is being ignored. I can see the need for more
parking, but please put it to the north end off Clarkston road. The proposed
road through the middle of the serene area is totally inappropriate. It
would take away from the natural setting that everyone loves. Truthfully I
have never heard of Frisbee Golf, but it does not belong here. Put a field
in at Friendship Park. Please reconsider your master plan.
Thank You for your time.
Gary Et Ellen Hudson
1164 Walloon Way
Lake Orion, MI 48360
lary Zednik
From:
richard.conklin@gm.com
Sent:
Thursday, November 08, 2001 4:15 PM
To:
ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Cc:
gary.s.marriott@gm.com
Subject:
Orion Oaks Proposal
Must everything be blacktopped, leveled and sanitized until it becomes a
glorified lawn for lazy people, so they can waddle out of their car for 30 feet,
eat a hot dog once a year and go home. We have plenty of those types of
facilities around that don't seem to be over taxed. Why can't you realize
there is an audience that enjoys untainted nature. You have a chance to keep
a unique facility for all Oakland residents to use. If they want blaring
radios, picnic trash, flat land, wave pools and lawns let them use the existing
parks. Why on earth would you distroy the atmosphere of that land for Frisbee
golf, parking lots and park equipment? The Frisbee course in Troy in vacant
every time I pass it on 1-75! Promote the existing parks for lazy people and
Orion Oaks for us tree huggers and exercise nuts. Thank you
Rick and Leslee Conklin
2636 Wareing Dr.
Lake Orion MI. 48360
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: gnasher [gnasher@msn.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 6:39 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Park
Dear Sir,
We are writing to you to express our opinion regarding the "improvement" of Orion Oaks Park. It is our opinion that the park
should be left m as natural a state as possible and undergo no development at all.
There are many admirable facilities within other parks run by your commission and we believe that one left in a basically
undeveloped state is a bonus for everyone. We know that if we want to play golf, organise a party or barbecue, or need
developed facilities we can find them within easy reach at one of the other Oakland County Parks. It is comforting to know
that we can also find a true piece of nature within Orion Oaks and would plead with you not to change that.
If revenue is the driving force behind the apparent push to develop Orion Oaks we would argue that the income generated
would be outweighed by the payback period required to recoup the investment. We have spoken to a number of other users of
Orion Oaks and they would be willing to pay an increase in yearly dues to fend off any impending development. Also if
parking ticket machines were installed at each of the entrances it is probable that casual users or passers by would be more
Rely to stop, use the facility and add to your income.
We hope you find a way to leave Orion Oaks as unspoiled as possible.
Yours faithfully
Mary and Terry Daniels,
200 Iroquois Drive
Lake Orion MI 48362.
Mary Zednik
From: dmyanusze@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 8:54 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: County parks
As a resident of Oakland County I would like you to consider the value of low
impact improvements in Orion Oaks park. Our school system in Orion uses the
parkas as teaching tool froom k-thru-12 th grade. The students from all the
schools are bussed to The Moose Tree Preserve to study and learn. Each year
every class goes . They have microscopes, field trips and learn a great
deal about their environment in their own backyards, how to conserve and the
value of all things in nature. The younger students collect and count bugs,
identify them and draw them. Any changes to the area directly surrounding
the lake would have an adverse effect on moths, bugs, butterflies, frogs and
their habitats. Once these changes and losses occur they can never recover
especially after opening up so much territory for pollution, litter ,foot
traffic,and cars. All our parks don't have to be identical, nor should they
be. That is such a narrow minded approch to a valuable teaching tool. There
are many other areas which are accessable to all people, games and boating, I
feel so strongly we need an area left for future generations to learn from
and apperciate, please don't consider any changes to the are directly
suppounding the lake environment. Paving the existing parking lot on the
Joslyn entrance with a paved path to the dock would give the wheelchair
access you need. The dock should not be moved. The bark park area could
easily be doubled or tripled with very little cost or impact. There is no
value for the future, or presently to adding a frizbee golf course or more
)ating. You could add additional parking to the parking lots which are now
.n the park with a much lower impact to the environment,and less cost. I
believe many more people are using the park as it is than you reported, we
just bike or walk our dogs there and you aren't counting us. We do count,
and see a value in leaving the natural environment for all to use not just a
vocal few. Thank you Martha Yanuszeski
M
November 11, 2001
Dear Oakland County Parks Commission,
Please include the following comments concerning the proposed Master Plan
for Orion Oaks County Park in your deliberations, prior to adoption:
1. We prefer the least amount of development possible in the park.
2. Low maintenance / staffing to reduce amount of funding to run park.
3. Because of traffic concerns on Clarkston Road, retain the current 3
access points.
4. Find a way to continue recycling Christmas trees.
5. Reduce the number of parking spaces (to one-third the number planned),
or at least develop parking areas in phases: a few spaces in several areas
closest to the entrances and only in the interior in the distant future.
6. Roads and parking areas - unpaved / gravel, to allow for less intense
development and promote better drainage.
7. Use existing road and trail locations for access to park areas.
8. Continue tree plantings.
9. Retain distinct natural areas: meadow, hills, wetlands, woodlands, lake.
10. Use hard surface similar to Paint Creek Trailway for pedestrian trails, to
allow handicapped access.
11. Provide a variety of uses: hiking, biking, fishing, some sports / games
areas, Bark Park.
12. Retain or develop habitat for wildlife and fragile plant varieties.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Sincerely,
?ouag and Jill Bastian
C 24Y) 6 q 3.-,6 9j
Dieter & Hedi Fuenfer November 12, 2001
2827 Wareing Place
Lake Orion, MI 48360
To
The Oakland County Parks Commission
What is wrong with you people????
Why is the Oakland County Parks Commission obsessed to develop the Orion Oaks Park.
Why can't you respect the uniqueness of that Park. There are many other Oakland County Parks they do
have the Picnic areas and playing areas you want to put in this Park. We believe that the Oakland County
residents choose their Parks according to their recreational plans. So if somebody wants to have Picnic or
wants to play they choose the Park with offer those amenities.
If someone wants to hike, bike or just wants to enjoy nature untouched, they will choose Orion Oaks Park.
Why can't the Oakland County Parks Commission accept the fact, that not all Oakland residents want to
drive cars through a Park?
In the article in the Oakland Press from Nov. 8,2001 Mr. R. Richard states that it not very convenient for
people from far to use Orion Oaks Park.
What does he mean by that ???
Does it mean that he prefers the residents from far which visit the park once in a while over the residents
who live close and use the park frequently and buy the yearly sticker.
Since when does the Oakland County Parks Commission determine the definition of the word
convenience?
For us it is convenient to walk in the Park without crossing streets, without turning around and watch for
cars, without walking by Picnic areas where people left garbage laying around, or if,you walk your dog not
to worry if there is any broken glass on the trails from a party the night before.
With your proposal you also increase the upkeep and maintenance costs for the park. If you want to put a
road through the park it will cost the taxpayer additional money for road repairs, snow plowing, salt, waste
disposal, and possible law enforcement to control the park.
How much more money would you have to spent on the park compared to leaving the park the way it is???
Not to mention the huge impact of the wildlife in Orion Oaks Park. In Oakland County the development of
new residential areas progresses with such a high speed, that in a few years from now, there will be no
natural habitat for deer, birds, and any kind of wildlife.
In the same article the Orion Twp. Clerk Mrs. Jill Bastian states " Do nothing there is not realistic" and I
would like to ask her why???
Why is it not realistic to preserve Nature? In a few years from now, when all the land in Orion Twp.is
developed, when the traffic has increased even more, Orion Oaks Park will be the Heart and Soul of this
Community. Whatever you destroy now, will be difficult to repair in the future!
In the Oakland County Parks Mission Statement you promise to provide recreational, leisure,
learning experience, that enhances the quality of life.
This is all we are asking for.
Please do not accept the proposal for any development in the Orion Oak
Park.
Please help us to protect the quality of life.
Respectfully
Dieter & Hedi Fuenfer
November 6, 2001
Donald L. Shields
3429-Elmy Dr.
Orion, MI 48359
Oakland County Parks and
Recreation Commission
2800 Watkins Lake Rd.
Waterford, MI 48328
Dear Commissioners:
OAKLAND COUNTY
PARKS & RECREATION COMM.
N o V 0 8 2001
We wish Orion Oaks to remain unchanged and undeveloped. The park's current
condition; its innate appeal, attracts and sustains an amazing variety of wildlife and
draws local and regional visitors. During daily visits through the years we have seen:
coyote, fox, dccr, wild turkey, sandhill crane, bob-o-link, bluebird, otter owls, hawks
osprey, connarants, massaugua rattler, mute swan, Canada geese, other waterfowl and
animal wildlife.
Undeveloped Orion Oaks can be an oasis in the rapidly urbanizing Oakland County.
Allow the healing from former uses and misuses to continue, let Orion Oaks be unique in
the County Parks system and something to be proud of and treasure. We spend 10-15
hours per week visiting all areas of Orion Oaks and would be eager to pay an additional
fee for its support and maintenance as it now exists.
Sincerely,
Pon Shields and Maggie
v
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: George Sinnott [sinnott@tir.com]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 4:57 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Fw: Orion Oaks County Park
I am resending this letter since I received a notice that the previous copy could not be delivered.
----- Original Message -----
From: George Sinnott
To: ocparks@oakland.mi.us ;
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:35 PM
Subject: Orion Oaks County Park
I would like to go on record as opposing any major development to Orion Oaks County Park. I attended a meeting at the
Orion Township Hall regarding development of this property and the overall majority of people at this meeting were opposed
to any major development to the park.
Orion Oaks county Park is one of the few areas in Orion Township where residents can go to get away from the very busy
roads and development in the area, it is truly a pristine area that can be used as an escape from today's very busy and hectic
environment. Walking through the park is truly a joy, you escape the sound of vehicles traveling on the nearby roads and the
experience brings you back to earlier times when you could take a walk through the woods or field without interruption by
outside influences. Putting a paved road through the middle of the park with associated parking for 200 vehicles would
completely destroy the whole concept of a natural area for people to visit. Oakland County has several parks that offer paved
roads and developed recreation areas, these include Bald Mountain and Addison Oaks. Let's leave this park unspoiled and
natural.
I would reconnnend that you consider an alternate plan of putting parking close to the perimeter of the park, adding some rest
room facilities and leaving the access to the park from Baldwin, Clarkston and Joslyn Roads. These multiple entrances
encourage local residents to use the park and are within walking distance from many of the homes in the area.
Thank you for allowing us to voice our opinion on this very important subject.
George & Sharon Sinnott
2352 Canoe Circle
Lake Orion, MI
11/20/01
KNIA
Oakland County
Parks and Recreation Department
Administrative Office
2800 Watkins Lake Road
Waterford, MI 48328
Dear Sirs:
1971 Country Lane
Lake Orion, MI 48360
October 31, 2001
OAKLAND COUNTY
PARKS & RECREATION COMM.
NOV () 1 2001
ma's Yam' i
I am writing this letter to protest the planned development of Orion Oaks Park. I
live in the Scripps Lakeview Condominiums, which border on a portion of the
park, and would hate to witness the disappearance of one of the few remaining
natural beauty sites in this area.
I believe there are sufficient recreational facilities already available in Orion
Township, e.g., Friendship Park at Clarkston and Baldwin Roads, and the Orion
Township Park on Joslyn Road.
I am particularly concerned about the planned mountain bike trails and the noise
these vehicles create. A great deal of noise and commotion can also emanate
from so many picnic areas.
I believe that this plan is not only costly but also unnecessary, and that it will
result in an increase in property taxes, which many of us can ill afford.
It is my hope that the Oakland County commissioners, in their wisdom, will
refuse to adopt this plan on December 5.
Sincerely,
Helen Korhonen
Mary Zednik
From: Peter Loetzner [loetznerusa@hotmail.com]
)ent: Monday, November 12, 2001 8:05 PM
0'0: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: orion oaks county park
To whom it may concern.
Orion oaks is the last nature preserve in this area of denser and denser
development. The neighbors enjoy this beautiful stretch of untouched nature.
Don't develop this park from the inside out bringing almost 300 cars inside.
Please keep cars outside. Isn't Lake Sixteen for paddle boat use only? Why
are there additional boat launch docks planned? My kids like to play on
fallen trees, climb on rocks and play in the sand at fossil hill. They don't
need a playground in the park. There are great playgrounds not even one mile
away.
We would like to keep our park as is.
Peter Loetzner
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer. msn.com/intl.asp
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: PETER LOETZNER [loetzner@prodigy.net]
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 12:51 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: orion oaks/conceptual master plan
To whom it may concern:
I am just looking at a copy of the conceptual master plan for orion aoks county park. This park is a beautiful nature
preserve as is and does not need any major changes. Why would you like to bring 275 cars inside the park , when
there is access possibility from Joslyn Rd. The now existing parking lots at Baldwin Rd, Clarkston Rd and Joslyn
Rd had never been overfilled, so why is there any need for so much paved (or gravelled) ruined nature area. All
the families, hikers, bikers, runners, dog owners are enjoying the park as is. There is no need for playgrounds in
there. Civic Center Park and Frienship Park are so close. If there are requests for picnic areas and
playgrounds, please stay on the outskirts like the area corner Joslyn/Clarkston Rd or thearea that is used as the
woodchips distribution site. Why do we need more docks on the westside of the lake? This would bring traffic in a
park that is used now by people loving the peace and quiet of enjoying the nature ( birds, deer, vegetation). Why
destroying this and leaving a few squarefeet of 'nature preserve area' as indicated in the plan?
Again, if there is need for more docks, why not staying on the eastside of the lake from Joslyn Rd, where is
already car access to the lake and park.
Me and my family and neghbors are using this beautiful park almost daily. Please don't destroy it.
Best regards
Lisa Loetzner-Jung
Mary Zednik
From: RossWE331@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 9:11 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi. us
Subject: Fwd: Orion Oaks Development - Ditto
I
Orion Oaks
Development cz.se K... As nearby local residents in Keating Cedars II and frequent visitors to the
Orion Oak's facility, my wife & I would like to echo what Mike Brinkman
states regarding our view of any further park development. The one thing we
would very much like to see is to have the bike paths completed around the
outer section of the park. Currently it is too dangerous to attempt bike
travel across the Clarkstone Road end of the park or on the North west
section of Baldwin Road. Any further development internally to the park
would be destructive ..... the open field at the North east section could be
expanded for the dogs/horses & special events.
Thanks for your considerations in arriving at a fair and just plan for the
preservation of this great little park.
Ross & Karen Ensign
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Rmccart18@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 8:50 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Cc: Rmccart18@aol.com
Subject: Orion Oaks Master Plan Revision
Richard McCarthy November 12, 2001
2699 Dansbury Court
Lake Orion, MI 48360
To: Oakland County Parks Commission
In regards to the proposed Master Plan for Orion Oaks Park, some picnic areas, restroom facilities, and parking
accomodations would be fine at the perimeter of the park. I don't understand the need to put paved roads and
parking lots in the middle of the park. We have lots of parks in Oakland County that offer these types of
accomodations for the public. Some of the public enjoy natural preservation and simple physical activities.
Grooming cross country ski trails and adding a "Vista Overlook" would offer family activities for those that enjoy
the more fundamental aspects of life. Frisby Golf is available in Troy, and from my obrevations remains very
underutilized. Must we industrialize all of our parks? Please consider all of the residents in Oakland County, and
allow one park to remain motorless.
Sincerely,
Richard A. McCarthy
Mary Zednik
From:
Michael Brinkmann [MIKBRI@worldnet.att.net]
Sent:
Sunday, November 11, 2001 11:49 AM
To:
ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Cc:
Hazzard, Bob; Susan Spinelli; Susan (work) Spinelli; Sinnott, George; Sandy Huston; Ross
Ensign; Randy & Pam Gower; Pam Chomiak; nancy thrams; Kris F. Kadau; Kachorek, Mike;
Gerry & Theresa Bieser; Gerry & Julie Lee; Don Stone; Denny & Peggy McGee; Debbie
Lusty; Chuck & Miff Hendrickson; Brinkmann, Mike; Austin, Chuck; Alissa Endicott; Sinnott,
G. J.; Jane & Wayne Zimmerman; Dave & Debbie Les; Dave Lusty; Debbie McFarland
Subject:
Orion Oaks Development
Perhaps it's too late to have an impact, but we wish to go on record in
opposition to the proposed development of Orion Oaks County Park.
We realize you have authorized a "study" to develop and implement a "plan"
for Orion Oaks. It must seem awkward to develop such a plan when a majority
of the outspoken users of the park simply want it left alone, undeveloped.
We're not aware of many proponents FOR development other than those who
would like to see the "dog park" expanded. Since they actually do USE the
park now, we are sympathetic to their wishes; however, as to the remainder
of the development, we are opposed.
We believe only the perimeters should be developed and that should be
minimal: expanded dog park, rest rooms, perimeter parking with picnic
tables, f or example. We oppose paved roads, reduced entry, frisbee golf and
the large interior picnic areas proposed as well as the negative
environmental impact, maintenance costs/problems which they will create.
We appreciate your efforts to listen and appreciate the difficulties you
must have discharging your mandate for ALL Oakland County residents. We must
admit, the current proposal DOES show that you listened and heard MOST of
the input you solicited at public meetings. Nevertheless, we would be remiss
if we did not argue forcefully for our viewpoint.
We would appreciate being on any E-Mail notifications which you might create
as part of any planned park development.
Mike Et Julie Brinkmann
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Tom Rawski (ratom@provide.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 3:30 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Park
Signed By: ratom@provide.net
Security Label: Signed
I am a resident of Oakland County living very near Orion Oaks. I urge the Parks and Recreation
Department to avoid making any major changes to the configuration of the Park. It is functional and
serves the community in a natural way. Changing it by adding roads and picnic areas will destroy its
natural appeal. There are plenty of golf courses in Northern Oakland County.
Please leave Orion Oaks in its present state!
Sincerely,
Tom Rawski
2848 Wareing Drive
Lake Orion, MI 48360
248.391.3522
Mary Zednik
From: Snyder, Jim (PSC) (Jim.Snyder@vw.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 10:05 AM
To: 'ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us'
Subject: Orion Oaks
I am strongly opposed to the proposed development of Orion Oaks County Park.
Current visitors to the park feel this undisturbed piece of land is
breathtaking. You should be doing all that you can to save one of the last
undeveloped green spaces in Oakland County. Making the fishing docks more
accessible to the handicapped is one thing, but, 300 Parking spaces ??
Frisbee golf ?? Every Frisbee golf course I've seen is completely
underutilized and is falling apart. I hope economics is not your motivation
behind this proposal. Is it your intention to boost attendance at $18 - $20
per vehicle? There are many beautiful local, County and State Parks that
are under utilized and accessible to all, just minutes from any Oakland
County residents door. Lets stop the eagerness to develop every square mile
of our wonderful County Parks.
'.eave Orion Oaks alone!
Jim Snyder
Lake Orion
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Tom Rawski [ratom@provide.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 3:30 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Park
Signed By: ratom@provide.net
Security Label: Signed
I am a resident of Oakland County living very near Orion Oaks. I urge the Parks and Recreation
Department to avoid making any major changes to the configuration of the Park. It is functional and
serves the community in a natural way. Changing it by adding roads and picnic areas will destroy its
natural appeal. There are plenty of golf courses in Northern Oakland County.
Please leave Orion Oaks in its present state!
Sincerely,
Tom Rawski
2848 Wareing Drive
Lake Orion, MI 48360
248.391.3522
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: MiffnChuck@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 3:02 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks
Orion Oaks is a great park as it is now; in its natural state. Why are is the park system trying to change it? Who
is asking for these changes? Is there just money to burn both now and in the future? (these changes will require
ongoing maintenance) The word 'park' does not necessarily mean a developed area. It is an area of land usually
in a natural state for the enjoyment of the public. There is a large number of the public that enjoys this park just
as it is. There really are people out there that don't care to see every park "developed". If there is a burning
desire to spend money please do it elsewhere.
Chuck Hendriksen
Oxford, MI
Help Save the Orion Oaks Park
I am writing in response to the article about the
development of the Orion Oaks Park. we already
have a park on the I.E. corner of Clarkston Rd. and
Baldwin Rd. And we also have Independence Oaks
just a few miles away. we should have at least one
park left without picnic shelters, Frisbee Golf and
ball fields. Many of us who live near Orion Oaks
Park would like to see it preserved the way it is.
What would happen to the deer, fox, birds and other
animals if you add more activity of picnic areas,
noise and litter? Many people use the park as it is,
and public opinion is that the park should stay the
same. with all the building of homes and increase in
commercialization going on in our area, we don't
need to lose this wonderful oasis of wildlife and
peacefulness. what is wrong with having some
"undeveloped land"? Igo we want to become another
Royal Oak or Birmingham and have nothing but
asphalt and cement? These are many of the reasons
why we chose to live in Lk. Orion, let's not ruin our
paradise!
!yrion UaKS Park
A Subject: Orion Oaks Park
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:25:08 -0400
From: <jeff.heath@gm.com>
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
CC: ktheath@ameritech.net, jkieline@tac.textron.com
Mr. Richard:
I had the oppurtunity to attend the public workshop for Orion Oaks park last
evening in Orion Twp. It began a little rough but turned out to be a productive
session and I was glad I attended.
We our very fortunate to have such a nice piece of land in our park system for
all to enjoy. The resounding sentiment at the meeting was to leave it in as much
the condition it is as possible. It seems that those who have experienced the
park are struck by its unspoiled and serene nature. It's a natural oasis in the
midst of busy and evershrinking greenspace. I would agree that some minimal
improvement around the fringe areas of the park is desirable to allow safe and
comfortable use of the park for residents of the entire county. Thus, improved
bathroom facilities (natural looking types that are shielded from the roadways),
dedicated 911emergency phones, and improved parking lots would be fine
additions. There were a couple other ideas that came from the meeting that might
be good as well, such as, removing or at least naturally bordering the woodchip
and commercial vehicle parking lot site. It is an eyesore. Adding more local
natural plant elements, making anobservation deck along Lake Sixteen etc... All
these ideas are in keeping with preserving the nature of what is there and
minimalizing the obvious intrusion of the hand of man.
I am not a tree -hugger ! I understand the rational need for development and I
certainly enjoy some of our more developed parks. You have , in general, done a
great job with our parks and, again, I feel very fortunate to be able to live
near them and utilize them. There is certainly a place, though, for a park like
Orion Oaks that is unique in our county as one that has an untouched feel.
That's what makes it special and it should remain that way. Please pass this
along to our commisioners. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Jeff Heath
(248) 391-6211
Orion Oaks Bark Park
-Subject: Orion Oaks Bark Park
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:45:31 -0400
From: "Walsh World" <WalshWorld@peoplepc.com>
To: <ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us>
My name is Lisa Walsh and I live in Orion Township. I frequently take my dog to the Orion Oaks Bark Park to run and play. I
was delighted when the park opened, and thrilled with the idea of an open, natural setting that I could enjoy with my pet. I
think that the Bark Park is a very unique idea, and I have since read that other communities have expressed interest in
creating a similar park for themselves. I am very dismayed to find that Oakland County may have intentions to 'develop' Orion
Oaks park. I feel that natural green and wooded spaces are being cut down and ruined in the name of progress at an
abominable rate in North Oakland County. Please do not take the Bark Park away! I urge those people that make these
decisions to visit the Bark Park on a sunny Saturday, and witness the families, children and pets enjoying the trails together.
We do not want another golf course, corporate picnic area, parking lot, or whatever ideas that the
'developers' can come up with. Leave the park alone, make money on something else!
Lisa Walsh
2908 Saturn Dr.
Lk. Orion, MI.
Kathie Binldey
2810 Buckner Rd.
Lake Orion, Michigan 48362
Oakland County Park Commission
Oakland County Parks
2800 Watkins Lake Rd.
Waterford, Michigan 48326
Dear Sirs:
I recently received a letter from you asking for public input. I'm genuinely concerned that you folks either aren't
listening or aren't interested in public opinion, but just the appearance of caring about public opinion,
Our initial petition last year requested no development, that the Orion Oaks Park be left as a natural habitat area.
We had collected almost 1700 signatures in less than three weeks and stopped the petition at your request because of
the upcoming vote for an increase in public funds for the parks system. Our Orion Township meeting changed the
resolution sent by the township, again requesting that you leave the park undeveloped. This resolution was again the
result of very strong public opinion. At the last public meeting held by the park administration, virtually every
person approached signed a petition requesting the park be left undeveloped. The clear opinion in the meeting:
leave the park alone.
The thing that makes this park special is that once in the interior there is only nature. You are transported to believe
you must be someplace far from our overly developed Oakland County. 1 cannot believe you're allowing cars into
the interior. Mr. Figa mentioned himself that you recognize how special the affected meadow area is. Putting a 22
foot wide road down the side of it ruins it. Who wants to hike along a road? Hikers don't set out to look at cars
driving past
The planned pavilions are not only an eyesore in a natural setting, they invite vandalism and large drunken parties.
They are `t even needed as having checked other facilities in the area, there is no shortage of availability.
Shutting down to one entrance will tend to overload one area of the park. It also limits the use of the park to your
business hours rather than the one hour before sunrise, one hour after sunset. Too bad for all of the people currently
using it before work.
A boardwalk around the lake does nothing but put more manmade crap into the park and can't be great for the eco-
systems. Where I have nothing against disc gold it does restrict that area of the park to a very, very tiny percentage
of the populace. Most people haven't even heard of it. Again, there are underused facilities available in the area.
Not only do these changes use public funds to develop these unwanted changes , but then more money must be used
to maintain them.
I've lately read about many communities buying land to set up conservancy areas. Please have the foresight to
realize we already have one. Please leave this park undeveloped. It is not possible to "improve" this lovely natural
area by developing it. Use those public funds to do what the public wanted in meeting after meeting. Preserve and
restore Orion Oaks Park.
Sincerely,
G2:C� r
Kathie Binkley
Cc: Oakland Press
Eccentric Newspapers
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Joe Piirala [JoePiirala@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 2:55 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Park
I have lived in Lake Orion for my entire life, 48 years. Very near the park. I have watched as my
lovely
town has been EATEN UP by land developers. The people that move hear want a home in the
country. If the park is to be "Developed" what country do we have left?
Please use good common since and a moral mind in dealing with this decision.
We don't need any more "Development"
Thank You.
Joe Piirala
1605 Bayview
Lake Orion, Mi. 48362
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Kim Roeren [kheroeren@msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:31 AM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks County Park
I live in Keatington subdivision, which is located right next to Orion Oaks County Park. I am
writing because I was dissappointed to read that your organization was planning to pave the park,
add a pavillion, etc. I think this park is a gem, and should not be touched. I want to have a
natural park to go to with my family. After all, Independence Oaks is not more than 1 mile away,
and there is a kids playground just around the corner at Clarkston Road and Baldwin Road. If
people want all the ammenities, they can go Independence Oaks! Also, I do not think this will
increase my property value- in fact, it may even detract from it with all the increased traffic, noise,
etc. that will come with these proposed changes to the park.
PLEASE take this email into consideration and leave Oakland County residents with a place to go to
see nature intact.
Thanks,
Kim Roeren
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
ORION OAKS PROPOSED MASTER PLAN REVIEW
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Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: PPlopa@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 11:59 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: comments on Orion Oaks Master Plan
Dear Mr. Stencil and Oakland County Parks and Recreation Commission:
I have been a resident of Oakland County since 1972. 1 currently reside in Bloomfield Hills, but work in
Rochester Hills and take pleasure in the many parks and recreation areas of Oakland County. The unique
attraction of Orion Oaks is that it is both beautiful and less developed than other park and recreation areas in
Oakland County. I have viewed and reviewed the conceptual plan to develope Orion Oaks and I strongly oppose
it. The current plan would destroy that which is unique about Orion Oaks -- its naturalness. We have plenty of
parks already with parking lots, picnic tables, concrete, and play areas. Leave Orion Oaks the way it is!
Patricia A. Plopa, Ph.D.
4655 Pickering Rd.
Bloomfield Hills, MI 48301
lary Zednik
From: Bob Stewart [bstewart@osbornind.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:11 AM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Park
There have been several newspaper articles regarding possible developments
with this property. I personally believe that it is beautiful in it's
current natural state and should be left as it is to be enjoyed by the
residents of the community as one of the few remaining untouched treasures
in Oakland County. In addition, it is hard to understand why hunting is
allowed in a public property that is frequently used by children,
bikers, runners, nature lovers, and dog handlers. Please advise your
comments. Thank you.
Bob Stewart
Osborn Industries
248-643-7797
bstewart@osbornind.com
-re'li
Oakland County Parks and Recreation Commission:
On a recent visit to Orion Oaks Park I discovered a flyer announcing your tentative plans for revision of the
park. I enjoy this park precisely because it is mainly undeveloped, and oppose the heavy development
which you have outlined in your master plan.
Orion Oaks is a beautiful, serene haven in the midst of a continually growing suburban area. I enjoy
walking and biking there because it is generally uncrowded and there are no cars to spoil the peace and the
scenery. On a recent visit with my family we observed deer and wild turkey. During my many jogs in the
park, I frequently see deer and many species of birds. This would all be destroyed with the addition of a
paved road, 275 parking spaces, playing fields, playgrounds and picnic areas all in the very heart of the
park. Obviously, this will bring many more vehicles and people into the park, what nature will remain?
What is disturbing is that you find the need to duplicate amenities, most of which are already found in your
nearby Independence Oaks Park. In addition, the cities of Lake Orion and Clarkston have large parks
nearby as well with good playing fields, picnic shelters, and playgrounds such as Friendship and Clinton
parks. You already have an under -used handicapped accessible boat dock and fishing pier on Lake Sixteen,
is another really necessary on this lake? Please resist the temptation to make yet another park like the
others, it isn't needed.
I can understand the possible need to provide better access to Orion Oaks. I feel this can easily be
accomplished by modestly enlarging the already existing parking areas on Baldwin, Clarkston and Joslyn
roads. A paved bicycle trail along Baldwin and Clarkston roads would improve the pedestrian access to the
park as well. A small picnic shelter and restroom would be a welcome addition near one or more of the
existing parking areas. In my opinion, none of these improvements would change the nature of the park as
drastically as your proposal since they are all situated along the perimeter of the park.
Please resist the urge to "improve" Orion Oaks Park. Many of us prefer to enjoy our parks a little on the
wild side. This is a park unlike the others and deserves to remain that way. Sometimes less is more!
Sincerely,
Louise Ochoa
Clarkston resident
FORTON
.,
245 Preston Avenue
245 Preston Avenue • Waterford, MI 48328 Waterford, MI 48328 phone (248) l Fax (248) 682-3513
4pR'�S ,� � ^��p1
November 15, 2001 kov
folD
Dear Daniel J. Stencil,
I feel a need to write you a letter letting you know I oppose the master plan for
Orion Oaks Park. I feel the master plan would not only be doing Oakland
County, but mankind a great injustice. Pavilions and parking lots, in the
middle of the park, will only bring in more alcoholics and people looking for
fights. Parking lots belong on the outskirts of the park. There are enough
pavilions at the other Oakland County Parks. Putting a beach area at the lake
does not make much sense considering how dirty the lake already is. The
lake needs some major clean up. For the park to be handicap accessible, put
paved paths through the park. I do not mean to sound discriminating but,
aren't their a lot of other parks in Oakland County with paved paths. I think
what a lot of bikers and hikers like about this park, is the fact that the terrain
is natural. I am all for bathroom facilities. My brother, John Forton, just
passed away October 20, 2001. I was at the park the day my brother passed
away. The park is my sanctuary. It gives me peace of mind. Solar, Shaka (my
two dogs) and I were in the part of the park, where parking lots are possibly
going to be, when I thought to myself, it does not get much better than this.
This park enables myself as well as others to keep their sanity. Right now the
park is very majestic. Start putting pavilions and parking lots in the middle of
the park then you will only have another man-made mistake! In loving
memory of my dear brother, John Forton, I only pray the park remains just the
way it is.
Sincerely,
Susan J. Forton
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: LindaDoraz@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:58 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Development of Orion Oaks Park
Thank you for providing the Bark Park. It's great... especially because things were left in such a natural state.
I support minimal development of the remainder of the park. There are so few wild open spaces -- we need to
treasure them! And we need to leave more large -acreage habitat areas for wildlife. The critters are being
displaced at an alarming rate in Oakland County ... and they need more than scattered patches of green.
In addition, there are several more -developed parks in close range of Orion Oaks, complete with picnic facilities,
playgrounds and ballfields. Why add more?
Traffic, too, is thick enough on the only-2-lane roads leading to the park. Major development of the park would
surely add to the traffic congestion.
What is planned for the areas marked "Future Use Area?" Please, no camping or golf courses!
Thank you for seeking input from the citizens!
Sincerely,
Linda D'Orazio
1116 Blue Ridge Dr.
Clarkston, MI 48348
11/15/01
Mary Zednik
From: Guthrie, Mark [mark.guthrie@delphiauto.com]
gent: Monday, October 15, 2001 10:33 AM
,'o: 'ocparks@co. oakland. mi. us'
Subject: Orion Oaks
I read in the paper an intent to build a pavilion, Frisbee golf, etc at
Orion Oaks.
Please, please, please leave it as is. We enjoy the natural surroundings,
and love to walk with our children through the paths. If people want all
those other amenities, they can drive the 10 minutes to Independence Oaks.
Stop the development and enjoy what we have in the way God intended.
Thank you,
Mark Guthrie
8914 Minne Wana
Clarkston, MI 48348-3317
248-394-1758
Mary Zednik
From: NJNopp@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 6:57 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakiand.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks
I strongly feel that Orion Oaks Country Park should remain as undisturbed as
possible. With more and more development in every city in Oakland County,
the time is not far off that undeveloped land will become scarce. The small
pockets of green space developers are leaving is not adequate in enhancing
our County. I want the priviledge of being able to walk in a place that is
quiet and peaceful and where I may observe nature. More development to the
park will cause changes to the flora and fauna that habitat the area.
Please, leave the park alone.
Nancy Noppenberger
172 Oakland
Rochester Hills, MI 48306
ORION OAKS PROPOSED MASTER PLAN REVIEW
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Dear Commission Members;
I ask you to reccm end not developing any of the interior of the
Chian Oalm County Park. It is one of the very last parks in this area
of Oakland County where wildlife and huwans can interact in a natural
environment. I know I speak for several park users that agree that
Orion Oaks is an oasis in a place of ccnstant and over-develognent.
My friends and I travel weekly frcm Southern Oakland County to hike,
bike and wander through the park as part of a routine that balances
out the madness that our congested society breeds.
If develcgnr=nt must take place, perbaps sore picnic sites near cane
of the entrances with restroom, a drinking fountain and a gazebo at
m)st. But please, leave the interior of the park for nature and those
of us who love it.
Nbst Sincerely,
Lori K. Soenen
2715 Columbia
Berkley, MI 48072
248-827-0822
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: OCParks [ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 10:03 AM
To: Colleen & David Young
Subject: RE: Orion Oaks Plan
Dear David,
Thanks for sending us your comments regarding Orion Oaks County Park. They will be kept on file for the upcoming
commission meeting on the master plan.
One of our parks commission's priorities is preserving natural areas for future generations, and we do appreciate the
abundance of wildlife and vegetation within the park. We share your concern of maintaining a natural area in the midst all the
development in our county, and our proposed plan does preserve the natural integrity of the park while allowing for passive
types of recreation.
The proposed master plan for the park, along with the current master plan, is on display Monday -Friday from 8 a.m. - 5 p.m.
until November 9th. I encourage you to stop by and take a look. I think you will be pleased to see that the new design
addresses the concerns you mention!
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts and comments with us. If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel
free to contact us again.
Enjoy the parks!
Mary Zednik
Public Communications
-----Original Message -----
From: Colleen & David Young[mailto:colleendave@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 9:39 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Plan
To whom it may concern,
My wife and I use Orion Oaks quite frequently, and are disturbed by the plans you have for the park.
The park is unique in the state that it is in - UNDEVELOPED! This is what makes it wonderful.
Please reconsider developing it.
David Young
8835 Minne Wana Dr.
Clarkston, MI
10/16/01
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: george rappold [glrappold@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 12:27 AM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: orion oaks
I read with interest the Nov.6, 2001 Detroit News article regarding the Orion Oaks park upgrade. As a
nearby resident I have viewed this prime piece of under developed park fall to the hands of special
interest groups.
The times I frequented the park were marked by the majority of the park users were dog walkers and I
might add the animals were not leashed causing me some concern. This is an underdeveloped park with
virtually no public facilities or picnic areas.
I was amused to note that part of the plan was a Frisbee golf area. Hello! FRISBEE GOLF???? I can see
the people lining up to play. A golf course would at least pay dividends. Has anyone checked on the
popularity of golf lately? Or would a golf course interfere with the special interests of people like Chris
Tarr. A base ball diamond, how about looking across the street. Seems to me'there are about a half
dozen there plus a children's play area.
What is the difference between the wildlife habitat and the nature preserve? Will the animals be trained
to stay along the fence line designated as the wildlife habitat? Will they be allowed in the trail net work?
The trail network could definitely use some improvement. By the way you better not be on the park
when the mountain bikers are there as they race pall mall over the trails. While attempting to cross
country ski I was severely injured after a bike race tore up the trail.
The fishing area which in my estimation is the most used portion of the park could use a larger parking
area.
I question whether Chris Tarr who has obvious concerns regarding wild life can set aside her feelings for
the community as a whole Does the community need to set aside 14 acres for a dog park? My tax
dollars used to support a park for dogs. Now there is something deeper there than my mind can
comprehend.
To my mind the proposed plan is a waste of tax payers money to promote the self interest of a select
few.
George Rappold
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Page 1 of I
Mary Zednik
From: JFB0605@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 11:26 AM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: ORION OAKS PARK
JUST LIKE TO MAKE A COMENT ABOUT THE PROPOSED "IMPROVEMENT"
TO THE PARK...IT DOES NOT NEED IMPROVED. IT IS BEAUTIFUL AS IT IS.
GOD HAS DONE A GREAT JOB AT MAKING THE PARK FUCTIONAL AND
BEAUTIFUL. MAN CANNOT IMPROVE ON WHAT HE HAS ALLREADY
COMPLETED. THIS PARK IS NATURE AT IT'S BEST. PLEASE LEAVE IT
ALONE. THANK YOU
IYldl y L.CU111R
From: Don Houghton [don.houghton2@home.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 8:14 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: ORION OAKS UPGRADE PROPOSAL
Oakland County Parks:
I am submitting my public comment on the proposed upgrade of Orion Oaks Park. I am an
avid user of Oakland County Parks and I support them by purchasing my annual permit
every year.
I do not believe it is in the public's best interest to proceed with the proposed updates for
Orion Oaks Park. This is the only Oakland County Park that is still is still rustic and
relatively undeveloped and I think it should stay that way. I think further development will
destroy the natural pristine beauty of the park, and have an adverse affect on the wildlife.
Orion Oaks is the only Oakland County Park that I can enjoy a peaceful walk through the
woods and enjoy the natural scenery and view wild animals in their natural habitat -
especially the deer. I visit the other Oakland County Parks for other purposes; Independence
Oaks for picnics and the nature center, Waterford Oaks for the wave pool and toboggan run,
and Addison Oaks for mountain biking and camping.
Please preserve the natural beauty of Orion Oaks Park and do not destroy the last truly rustic
Oakland County Park by proceeding with the proposed development plan. All of the other
Oakland County Parks are developed and are available for the public's use for those that seek
the additional recreation facilities that I mentioned above. Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely
Donald R. Houghton
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Chris and /or Cathy Gilbert [ccrcgilbert@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 4:00 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oak Park
Dear Sirs and Madames;
I am registering my dissatisfaction with the future plan for the Orion Oaks Park. I ride my bike in that
park frequently and also drive by it daily to drop off my kids at school. The unique aspect of this park
is it natural setting. I do not feel that your development would be in the best interest of the people who
use the park. By developing it, you will actually be destroying the natural setting that exist in these
multiple ecosystem. You have a lake, marshes, parries, and woodland. How can you improve on
that?????
Thanks you for your interested.
The Gilberts
--- ccrcgilbert@earthlink.net
--- Eartkink. It's your Internet.
Tuesday, November 06, 2001
Dear Oakland County Parks Staff and Parks Commissioners,
My family loves Oakland County's beautiful park system, especially Orion Oaks County Park. We run,
hike, and cross country ski through Orion Oaks. We have been utilizing this beautiful open -space every
week since moving to the area three years ago. We have compared this rare, open, unspoiled parts as
rival to the great open areas of Alaska, Colorado, and Ireland. Our commitment to Orion Oaks has
been evidenced by our acting as volunteer tree sapling planters, our participating in both "Create a -
Park" workshops, and now our efforts to communicate our concerns directly to you, the decision -
makers.
The "Create -a -Pads" workshops have resulted in a revised "Master Plan" currently on display at the
Oakland County Parks Administrative Office. Having attended both workshops, taken copious notes,
and conversed with over one hundred workshop participants, I am uniquely qualified to bring to light
inconsistencies with the new "Master Plan". They are as follows:
• The workshop(s) were utilized by well over one hundred seventy actual users of Orion Oaks Park.
The consensus of this citizenry was to please keep the park in its current state, with no new
development. The revised "Master Plan" totally ignores this majority opinion of workshop
participants.
Being reasonable people, and in the spirit of the workshop wherein "no idea is a bad idea", some
participants agreed that if development is indeed imminent let it take ground around the perimeter
of the park, thereby retaining the integrity of the park's interior. The revised "Master Plan" totally
ignores this opinion and bisects the largest open field with an inexpedient roadway. This intrusion
of a roadway will allow access to a brand new parking lot for a brand new boat launch and a brand
new Frisbee golf course. These come at the expense of many interior acres of natural fields,
wetlands and many throngs of trees. Ironically, this park currently has a parking lot and access to
this very same lake from the perimeter. This idea was not championed at the workshops. The
Frisbee golf course idea, also was not championed at the workshops.
The stated philosophy of Oakland County Parks is as follows: The Parrs system strives to
complement, not duplicate the services of state, metro, and local parks. This interior roadway,
new boat launch and Frisbee golf course do in fact duplicate services currently existing in this park and
services offered in numerous local parks. This is, if this revised "Master Plan" is adopted, simply a case
of development for the sake of development. This is inconsistent with the County Parks Philosophy and
its advertising and promoting Orion Oaks Park for years as the "natural, undeveloped park".
My family loves Oakland County's beautiful park system, especially this undeveloped jewel named
Orion Oaks Park. Together we can prepare a more nature friendly "Master Plan" for this lovely area.
Please contact me at 248-969-1507 to arrange a meeting to improve the cooperation between faithful
Orion Oaks Users and the leaders who hold the future of this wild, open space in their control.
Our address is 5405 Ridge Trail Clarkston, MI 48348.
Sincerely,
L�
oe Glaser
Page 1 of 1
Dan Stencil
From: Denny [den ny@etherbinge.corn]
Sent: Friday, Nov r 02, 2001 12:58 PM
To: Dan Stencil
Cc: Bruce Brakel; J Steffey; Denny
Subject: Proposed Orion Oaks Disc Golf Course
Dan: It was good to meet you the other day. I spent some time out at Orion Oaks and here are a few of my observations:
1) The proposed area on the south side of the park is good with its close proximity to subdivisions. It would be good to have
area youngsters that can walk to the course.
2) It was difficult for me to determine where the exact area boundaries are. I have a concern that the proposed area would
not encompass enough land with trees. The large central portion of the medow is not well suited for a disc golf course. A
course needs to have sufficient natural hazards to allow variety and challenge. It is possible that a good course could be
constructed that weaves in and out of the trees that hnmediately surround the meadow area. I would be very interested in
being shown exactly where the proposed boundaries are in order to make an assessment of the suitability of the land for a
good course.
3) 1 realize that disc golf is only one of many land -use considerations, but here are a couple long-term use issues that I think
are important:
a) If the parks department is to spend the money to put a course in it should be one that people will want to play.
b) If a course goes in it should have appeal to advanced players as well as beginners. Courses that attract advanced
players are more likely to develop leagues, host tournaments and attract players that are going to show concern for the
course and the
park. Courses that appeal only to beginners tend to attract players that are younger and have less respect for the park.
These young players can develop an appreciation for maintaining the natural beauty of the park, but generally they need
to
to be shown why this is important. They can also gain more from the game by having advanced players around that will
teach them the rules, etiquette and techniques that take the game from an afternoon goofing around at the park to one
that helps them develop skills and character.
c) I think that the park can certainly accomodate an excellent course, but it is important that the site have sufficient trees
and bushes.
4) Once shown the boundary lines, I would be more than happy to mock up a course using driveway reflector poles so that
long term planning can be best made. I realize that it will take time to implement the plan, but if I can help with making the
plan, I'd love to do so.
5) The "future use" land area in the Northeast corner of the park is not well suited for a disc golf course.
6) Ideally, the best land in the park for a course would be in the Northwest corner.
I hope that my comments will be useful to you. I look forward to offering whatever help I can as the plan develops. I'd also
like to be involved with the Addison Oaks redesign when that time comes.
Thanks for your consideration,
Mark "Denny" Ritner
cc: Bruce Brakel
Jerry Steffey
11/2/01
� NOV. 13. 2001 3:03PM DELTA TOOLING N0. 621 P.7i7
i
i
Mary Zednik
From: darby@gdls.com
;ent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 12:20 PM
1 o: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks County Park
I would like to see the Orion Oaks County Park remain undeveloped. Rustic
Camping should be allowed but only if you hike in.
I am very familiar with this area. In the mid 70's I use to commute to
Lake Voorheis and Lake Sixteen from Clawson to swim, hunt and ride my
motorcycle. This was before 90% of the Keatington subdivision was built and
long before Canterbury village was expanded. In 1978 my family moved to
Keatington and I used the area even more. I have seen the property around
Lake Voorheis subdivide and develope.
At first I did not like it when it became a park and was fenced off.
Looking back it was a good move to protect the property. It was good to see
the Park remain undeveloped. I miss not being able to ride my motorcycle in
the area but would rather see it remain undeveloped. Wildlife continues to
get squeezed as the county develops. We need to protect more areas for
those of us who enjoy nature. Multi -purpose fields already have been
developed on the corner of Clarkston and Baldwin. We have golf coarses all
over the county. This is a rare piece of property with rolling hills,
wetlands, fields and dense forest. Let's keep it that way.
Thanks,
Robert Darbyshire
Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: Jeff Hebert [gagetman1@home.com]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 7:30 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Comments on Orion Oaks Park!
To who it my concern,
I have been Hunting, Fishing, and Riding bikes in Orion Oaks Park for 5 years now.
My son is old enough to take Hunting with me now and I am teaching him the skills needed to hunt .I like this
particular park because of the fact that you can not only take the whole family but also still enjoy one of the few
places where I can take my son and not have to worry about people and guns at his age .
I few some change would be good but to put a picnic area, right in the middle of the field where Deer have been
crossing for years is not necessary .The paved road will be enough let alone a playground and such .
I would like for my children to be able to ,one day take thier children to this wonderful park and do the same as I
am doing at this present day and age.
I'm just one voice in this matter but Please understand that there are few places where people can be hunting,
fishing, biking, hiking, walking, running, or having a picnic all at the same time .
I love this park and to see it all change due to Modern day progress would be a shame .
Yes there are things that could be done , like rest rooms ,picnic areas , and maybe a playground, but they need to
put in a location where as not to harm or change the wildlife habitat.
Very concerned
Jeffrey Hebert
and Family
11/13/2001 11:04 5586802
QUINTEK GROUP INC
___.PAGE 01
November 12, 2001
Daniel r. Stencil
Oakland County
Parks & Recreation Conunission
2800 Watkins Lake Road
Waterford, MI 48328
Dear Mr. Stencil,
After reviewing your master plan proposal ;for Orion Oaks, I have
some comments to make.
First and foremost, I believe that the vast majority of park users have
told you in several meetings that they want the park to stay undeveloped as
is! It seems to me that you and McKenna & Associates continue to ignore
the wants of the park users. We already have Independence Oaks park a
few miles away that is underutilized and offers everything you propose for
Orion Oaks and more.
I am sure the developers can't wait to exploit this beautiful piece of
land but they don't care about anything except making money. Why
develop it and spend tons of tax money when most people want it left
alone.
In addition, your latest improvement, the dog "Bark Park" has
increased the loose dogs running off the leash in the park by tenfold. It
seems to me, since you are responsible for bringing the dogs into the park,
you should be giving tickets out to the dog owners who are violating
Michigan law by letting their dogs run loose outside of the dog Bark Park.
They are chasing animals and intimidating the other park users. At the very
least, signs should be posted in prominent places through out the park and
periodic checks should be done by park officials to enforce the law. I am in
the park at least twice a week and I have never seen a park ranger, county
sheriff or DNR officer patrolling the park except for writing tickets for no
parking stickers in the parking lot.
Sincerely,
Brian C. White
ULAUDUl- 1 1, GVV 1
Daniel J. Stencil
Oakland County
Parks & Recreation Commission
2800 Watkins Lake Road
Waterford, MI 48328
Dear Mr. Stencil,
Just what part of "do nothing to Orion Oaks" do you people not
understand?
I attended the last three meetings on the proposed future development
of this park and the overwhelming majority of park users said to leave this
pristine area alone! I suppose to justify your existence, you people need to do
something to improve on what nature has already done better than you could
ever hope to.
Your latest development, the "Bark Park" is an Eco-disaster! Not only
is the dog urine and feces a threat to Lake Sixteen (only a few yards down the
hill from the "Bark Park,") but there are health risks to the dogs and dog
owners themselves; since no one is checking to be sure that the dogs have
proper shots or are even licensed. Heavy rains and the spring snow run off
will put high levels of nitrates into Lake Sixteen promoting weeds and
pollution of this beautiful lake.
Furthermore a great many dogs are being let loose from the north gate
of the "Bark Park" to run loose in the rest of the park and are running deer
and other animals plus intimidating the other park users. Last year, the park's
maintenance man was bitten five times by dogs that were not on leashes. It
seems to me that park officials need to take some responsible action and start
ticketing the dog owners that are blatantly violating Michigan law. In
addition, I understand you have plans to expand the dog park. What in the
world are you people thinking! May I suggest that you get out from behind
your desk and go see what a nightmare you have already before you go ahead
and add to it!
This is a beautiful and unique piece of property, the only one like it in
Oakland County. Your plans to develop it are not the wishes of the majority
of the park users or the original owners who donated it to the DNR to
preserve it.
Sincerely,
Brian C. White
Mary Zednik
From: Jackie Hooper Ohooper@essmichigan.org]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 11:29 AM
i o: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Cc: mtnemon@juno.com
Subject: Orion Oaks - Plans to Add Recreational Facilities
Importance: High
To whom it may concern:
As a previous resident of the Clarkston/Lake Orion area, my family and I
visited Orion Oaks on several occasions. We especially enjoyed our nature
walks in the spring and fall, and our ability to observe natures many
changes in an untouched environment. The modifications to Orion Oaks
currently being considered is a concern to me because it would negatively
affect the natural environment my family and I have come to enjoy.
Although I have moved to another city, many of my friends still reside in
the Clarkston/Lake Orion area, and I know that this issue is of great
concern to them as well. I am still only 15-20 miles from the park and hope
to continue enjoying its natural beauty for many years to come. It is my
hope that Oakland County Parks £t Recreation Administration reviews and
seriously takes into consideration the reaction/opinion of patrons that
currently frequent Orion Oaks. With all of the commercial and residential
growth that has occured in Oakland County over the last several years, it's
nice to know that there are still some areas where people can go to enjoy
ature in an untouched envrionment. Thanks for your consideration!
Mary Zednik
From: Jana E Papke [papke3Quno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 8:45 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks
To Whom it May Concern,
This note is in response to the article in the Lake Orion Eccentric
dated 10/11 /01. 1 see Orion Oaks park as a very beautiful, peaceful park
and almost untouched by man. Why would we want to change that? Don't we
have enough parks with all the things proposed for Orion Oaks? How many
more picnic shelters and disc golf courses do we need? We can go to any
other park to get what is being proposed, let's keep this one unique,
natural and special.
Orion Oaks is a great park to hike, power walk, nature walk, bike, site
see, cross country ski, sled, bow hunt, picnic, fish, boat and take your
'-)g to the park. Those of us who enjoy these things love this park for
at being anything more. You may have heard the saying "Less is more",
well I think this park is a good example of that.
Sincerely,
Larry M. Papke
Mary Zednik
From: Doreen Haffner [dhaffner@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 12:02 PM
ro: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks Park
I for one would like the park to stay just like it is. It is not broken
PLEASE do not "fix"it. It is a wonderful place to go to walk. And by
leaving it as it is people can have their choice of trails to walk as to
different types of terrain.
The variety of animals and birds is just great to observe. So much of our
land has been developed that the wildlife has no where to go. I for one
think that Orion Oaks Park should be left just the way it is. Independence
Oaks, Groveland Oaks Ft others have picnic places and places to play ball and
other sports. And they are not that far away from Orion Oaks.I feel that
you should leave at least one county park in its natural state.
I don't know if you have ever been out there in the spring when all the
trees are in bud, or when these certain bushes are in bloom with these tiny
little flowers that smell so sweet. Or in the fall when all the trees are
in all their glorious colors. Or after the leaves have fallen and they
rustle as you walk through them. It is such a beautiful and serene place to
get away from all the hustle and bustle of everyday life.
I have two large (100 lb each)dogs that just love the park. Everybody that
come in contact with loves the park just the way it is. No one that I
have talked to wants it changed. Please consider the wishes and desires of
the people who use it, not the people who probably never or hardly ever use
the park.
Thank you for reading this,
Doreen Haffner
dhaffner@hotmail.com
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intt.asp
,---7' Page 1 of 1
Mary Zednik
From: OCParks [ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 12:47 PM
To: Colleen & David Young
Subject: RE: Orion Oaks County Park
Hello again,
Thank you for your reply. I will be sure it is added to the file for the commission meeting at which this issue
will be discussed.
Mary Zednik
Public Communications
-----Original Message -----
From: Colleen & David Young[mailto:colleendave@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 12:14 PM
To: ocparks@co.oakland.mi.us
Subject: Orion Oaks County Park
Dear Mary Zednik,
I am completely opposed to any sort of development at the Orion Oaks Park. This park is a treasure due
to it's lack of development. If some individuals would like to play golf frisbee, etc they can easily drive a
quarter mile to Friendship Park. This park is quite new and has many features.
Your plan will ruin what people come to this park for; that being untouched nature. Myself and many of
my friends enjoy walking and cross country skiing there. Your plan sounds costly and unnecessary. There
is no need for any kind of change at this park. Your plan does not preserve the natural integrity of this
park. How could you possibly build a pavilion, add bathrooms, a golf frisbee area, etc. without destroying
the wildflowers or disturbing the wildlife. Haven't we seen enough "development" in Oakland County!
Colleen Hall -Young
10/16/01
9
5405 Ridge Trail
Clarkston, MI 48348
October 21, 2001
(248) 969-1507
Oakland County Parks Commissioners
2800 Watkins Lake Rd.
Waterford, MI 48328-1917
Oakland County Parks Commissioners:
As a participant in both "Create -a -Park" workshops involving Orion Oaks Park and facilitated by
McKenna Associates, it is disappointing that the Commissioners have chosen not to listen to the
majority opinion (keep Orion Oaks a natural park) and insist on developing Orion Oaks Park.
Billed by Oakland County Parks as a "natural" park that "preserves more than 927 acres of
environmentally -sensitive green space," it is likely that this is the first phase of development in
order to make Orion Oaks another Independence Oaks.
In good faith, park users and local residents contributed ideas to McKenna and the Oakland
County Parks Department. The goal of the workshops were to look at the park and "supplement
what local parks and recreation areas want." It was also stated in the workshops that the
Parks Department wants to buy space, keep it green and give it access. While most people
opposed any development all were willing to compromise and agree to minor improvements as
long as they were kept to the outside perimeter of the park. Examples of those minor
improvements were:
• A restroom near Joslyn Rd. that could be tapped into the existing drain system.
• Primitive restrooms near the other two entrances.
• Picnic areas around the perimeters.
• Interpretive signs along the trails to describe plants or trees.
• Removing weeds that are choking out plants.
• Increase plantings.
• Improved parking at currently existing entrances (keep all three entrances).
After reviewing the revised Master Plan it is apparent that the majority opinion was not
considered: zero to minimal development. The results of both workshops reinforced what the
local park system is missing and what local recreation areas are in need of. natural green -
space. The opinion of the majority is that there are other parks in close proximity that have the
development that Orion Oaks does not need. The opinion of the Parks Department is that
development is necessary regardless of what the people in the area want.
A golf course was opposed and it was with great reluctance that minor improvements (not
development) to Orion Oaks appeared in the workshop plans. The only workshop plan (from my
husband's group) that had a road into the interior of the park was the result of the two
participants in that group being led down the path by the three consultants and three Park's
personnel that "no idea is a bad idea." It did not reflect the participant's true desires.
It is unclear whose voices are swaying the decisions of the Parks Department and Commission,
but, it is not the voice of the majority that support limited "improvements" restricted to the
perimeter of the park while leaving the interior of the park in its natural state. In what is
becoming rare among politicians Ron Fowlkes, a Milford Village Councilman stated in the
Oakland Press on 9/20/01 on constructing a new road, "...I received one comment in favor
of. ... and hundreds upon hundreds of comments from people who want (no development)....," he
made his decision based on the majority. Obviously, not a necessity for appointed positions.
The new Master Plan conflicts with the preservation of this "environmentally -sensitive green
space" with:
• The destruction of a significant amount of trees and wooded wet -land to construct a 22 ft.
wide road to the dock/boat launch, picnic area, restroom, gazebo and parking lot(s).
• Further destruction of trees for road access to the frisbee golf course.
• Loss of the most beautiful, peaceful and popular parts of the park, the meadow.
• Reduction of natural walking/hiking/biking trails and open fields.
• Reduced access to the park by local residents.
Further, the frisbee golf course was discussed in the workshops and rejected by all participants
but Parks personnel. Where is the data to support the need for another frisbee golf course
within a 20 mile radius of Orion Oaks? The frisbee golf courses in Royal Oak and Auburn Hills
are rarely used and slightly more utilized at Stoney Creek, and Addison Oaks. The addition of a
frisbee golf course reduces the number of trails through the meadow, further compromising the
environmentally -sensitive acerage, backs up to a sub -division, and caters to a select age group.
The Master Plan succeeds in controlling the access of a park that has not been controlled since its
inception into the park system. Runners, bikers, walkers and hikers will no longer be able to
access the park from Baldwin or Joslyn road and exit on the other side of the park. Nor will
patrons of the park be allowed to access the park at the current times (1/2 hour before sunrise to
1/2 hour after sunset). Sunrises and sunsets are beautiful from the interior of the park.
It appears that the Oakland County Parks Commissioners are insistent on making Orion Oaks a
money -generating, developed park rather than allowing a true "green space" to continue to
exist. A true contradiction to Oakland County Parks Department statements and behavior in
buying "green space" in order to prevent development. One of the wealthiest counties in the
country cannot see the need or desire of the taxpayers to have a true "green space."
Contrary to Pecky Lewis's letter to the Council of Troy Homeowners Association dated
8/15/2000, stating "...an increase in the amount of hiking trails will be one of the results of the
millage passing...," developing Orion Oaks will not only reduce the amount of natural hiking
trails but will destroy a large number of trees and wooded wet -land.
As a supporter of the last Oakland County Park millage I will oppose future millages since
"improvements" to the parks actually translates into this type of development.
When questioning the need for one entrance, the response from the Parks Department is that
OrionTownship is concerned with traffic on Joslyn Rd. Changing the entrance to the park from
Joslyn Rd. to Clarkston Rd. will not alleviate traffic concerns. Traffic counts on Clarkston Rd.
and Joslyn Rd. should be reviewed to support the theory that there is a significant difference in
traffic volume between Joslyn and Clarkston Rd. Further, it is unlikely that there is more traffic
on Joslyn Rd. than on Sashabaw at Independence Oaks. Unless there is data to support the
concerns of the Township, it is unacceptable to tell the general public that the reason the docks
and the entrance to the Bark Park must be relocated is because of the Township's concerns over
any potential accidents. Any entrance to the park will require a middle turn lane or right side
passing lane regardless of its location. Passing or turning lanes could occur today at the two
entrances on Joslyn Rd. and the entrance at Clarkston Rd.
Orion Township and the Parks Department should stop trying to blame the other on the outcome
of the park. It is obviously a political decision that no one is willing to be accountable for. The
Parks Commissioners are blaming the Township on the need to have one entrance off Clarkston
Rd.. The Township insists everything is the decision of the Parks Department.
It is also disappointing to know that the Parks Department paid McKenna ($22,000+) the
equivalent of the annual up -keep cost of Orion Oaks ($26,000+) to hold workshops that did not
reflect the participants desires. There are two petitions, each with over 160 signatures, in favor
of keeping the park in its natural state. The workshops were a half-hearted effort to make
the public believe their opinion was being heard. In fact, they were held to make the
Commissioner's believe that the "master plan" was the result of the citizen's desires.
It is obvious that the current Commissioners do not use Orion Oaks park nor appreciate the park
for what it is: a peaceful oasis amid out of control development. Out of control development
includes park development. Why can't there be a primitive park available for enjoyment? A
perfect example of a primitive park is the Van Brattle Park in Holland, MI. There are two
parking lots on opposite ends of the park (similar to Joslyn and Baldwin parking areas) that have
facilities (one side only has a porta john), but, the interior of the park has all -natural trails.
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Why don't you listen to the people who use Orion Oaks regularly (including children) and who
participated in the workshops? Why can't one Oakland County Park be undeveloped or
underdeveloped? It is not underutilized. It's an enjoyable alternative to the other parks in the
OC parks system. Try it sometime to gain an understanding of why there is such an opposition
to development at Orion Oaks. It's a nice change from Independence Oaks. It is interesting that
the opinion of the cross-section of individuals participating in the workshops is over -ridden
by one socioeconomic group of individuals running the Parks Department.
A voting taxpayer who uses the 927 acres of "environmentally sensitive green space,"
Deb Froehlich
CC: Oakland County Commissioners Department of Natural Resources
Orion Township Board Oakland County Press